前苏联武器专家肯·阿里贝克(Ken Alibek)博士的采访(一)

1997年,美国国防部特别武器局接待了肯·阿里贝克(Ken Alibek)博士,讨论前苏联生物武器计划的能力。

字幕内容:

Walt Zimmers

沃尔特·齐默斯

So what you’re saying is that molecular biology today 

所以你要说的是今天的分子生物学

as we know it can probably be easily adapted 

我们知道它可能很容易适应

by other countries to development of biological weapons agents 

由其他国家开发生物武器代理商

and that they too could potentially produce genetically altered strains 

而且它们也有可能产生基因改变的菌株

that would be antibiotically resistant

那会产生抗生素抗性

Dr. Alibek

阿里贝克博士

Uh let me say um we don’t have to underestimate a capability 

嗯,让我说,我们不必去低估这个能力

of we call them in many cases are underdeveloped countries

在很多情况下,我们称他们为未发达国家

This underdeveloped countries now have very significant scientific capability 

这些不发达国家现在具有非常重要的科学能力

just take a look at Cuba 

就看看古巴

We consider this country an underdeveloped country 

我们认为这个国家是未发达国家

but now they’re capable to develop practically any genetically altered agent possible 

但现在他们有能力开发出几乎所有可能的基因改变剂

Walt Zimmers

沃尔特·齐默斯

using modern techniques

使用现代技术

Dr. Alibek

阿里贝克博士

Yeah using modern techniques even uh 10-15 years ago 

是的,甚至在10到15年前使用现代技术

they were able just to develop genetically altered recombinant bacteria 

他们只能够开发出基因转变的重组细菌

recombinant bacteria of course we don’t know 

重组细菌,当然,我们不知道

whether or not they develop genetically altered antibiotic resistant 

他们是否研制出基因转变的抗生素抗性

but in many cases if you know this technique 

但是在很多情况下,如果你懂得这项技术

of course it’s not a big deal 

当然没什么大不了的

just to insert instead of a gene of one another technological substance 

只是插入而不是另一个技术实质的基因

 biological substance  

生物实体

or if you’ve got uh knowledge how to do this 

或者,如果你掌握了如何做的知识

it’s not a big deal it’s not a problem 

这没什么大不了的

just to insert a gene uh plasmid with a gene 

只是将一个基因插入带有基因的质粒中

that could cause an antibiotic resistance to one another antibiotic 

可能导致一种抗生素对另一种抗生素产生抗药性

Walt Zimmers

沃尔特·齐默斯

And in fact the former soviet union was doing this 

实际上,前苏联正这样做过

even before the advent of modern molecular biology 

甚至在现代分子生物学问世之前

by probably selection process or 

通过可能性筛选过程或

whatever to find uh antibiotic resistant

任何可以找到对抗生素有抗药性

or vaccine-resistant strains of organisms 

或对疫苗有抗药性的生物菌株

Dr. Alibek

阿里贝克博士

You’re absolutely right there are several techniques just to 

您是完全正确的,有几种技巧可以去

Walt Zimmers

沃尔特·齐默斯

Just to do that

只是去做那个

Dr. Alibek

阿里贝克博士

To do this but as  new techniques 

去做这个,但作为新技术

new uh approaches are we discovered 

我们所发现的新方法

of course the soviet union was able just to apply this technique 

苏联当然能够运用这种技术

uh this particular technique to develop new and new biological agents 

嗯,这项特别的技术来研制新生物制剂

Walt Zimmers

沃尔特·齐默斯

This is a pretty bleak picture 

这是一张非常惨淡的画面

as far as I’m concerned with respect to a hypothetical situation 

就我所关心的假设情况而言

let’s say where the former soviet union

比如说前苏联在那里

let’s the head let a cloud go over a city 

让我们的头上,让乌云笼罩整个城市

of an organism an agent that they had 

他们所拥有的生物体

how could that population respond effectively 

该人群如何有效应对

to protect themselves against that agent 

以保护自己不受那代理的攻击

if in fact what you’re telling me is true 

如果实际上你告诉我的是正确的

that antibiotics wouldn’t work 

抗生素会是无效的

but the concept of even if people were vaccinated that may not have worked 

但是,这个概念是即使人们接种了疫苗,也可能是无效的

what would be what would how would the soviet union have thought 

苏联会怎么想

about protecting itself against such agents 

关于保护自己免受此类药剂的侵害

and how would you describe a city in the United States 

以及您如何描述一个美国城市

as with respect to their capabilities to protect the people against such agents 

就他们保护人民免受这种行为者侵害的能力而言

Dr. Alibek

阿里贝克博士

first of all what I’d like to say 

首先,我想说的是

of course in many cases we are not talking about 

当然,在很多情况下,我们并不是在谈论

what was done what has been done  

 做了什么,已经做了什么

in many cases we just need to talk about possibility 

在许多情况下,我们只需要谈论可能性

and now we are talking about a level of biotechnology 

现在我们正在谈论生物技术的水平

and we say this level allows 

我们说这个水平允许

just to do a lot in this area 

只是在这个领域做很多事情

just to develop a lot of new genetically altered agents 

只是为了研制很多新的基因转变剂

Uh, the problem is now 

嗯,现在的问题是

of course there is a very serious gap 

当然那是一个很大的差距

between what we are doing in the area of developing some 

我们在发展一些领域之间所做的事情

by defense medical aspects medical approaches for biodefense 

通过国防医学方面的生物防御医学方法

and what was done 

以及已经完成了什么

and what could be done in the area of developing biological agents 

和在研制生物制剂方面可以做些什么

and biological weapons and probably this way 

和生物武器,也许是这种方式

and this approach we use now 

我们现在使用的这种方法

of course would never help us to reach 

当然绝对不会帮助我们达成目标 

just to capture   

只是抓住目标

just to uh to find an appropriate solution 

只是为了找到合适的解决方案

just how to develop appropriate medical defense products techniques 

以及如何开发适当的医疗防御产品技术

and this type of things probably we need to reconsider 

而这类事情,我们可能需要重新考虑

whether or not we’ve chosen a right away 

我们是否选择了一个正确的方法

 in other words just imagine the situation 

换句话说,只要想象一下情况

when we’re talking about possible biological agents could be used in biological weapons 

当我们谈论有可能的生物制剂可用于生物武器时

dozens even hundreds how many vaccines we need to develop 

 我们需要研制数十甚至数百种疫苗

 in this case how many treatment techniques 

在这种情况下多少种治疗技术

and in many cases we just don’t know 

而且在很多情况下,我们就是不知道

what kind of genetically altered agent could be developed in the future 

将来会发展出什么样的基因转化剂

in this case it’s very difficult to develop a goodbye defense 

在这种情况下,进行再见防御是非常困难的

in my opinion there is an approach it’s a long way to go 

在我看来,有一种方法,还有很长的路要走

but I’m convinced that it would be the best way 

但我坚信这将是最好的方法

we need to start researching our body’s own immune response system 

我们需要开始研究人体自身的免疫反应系统

so called  non-specific human response 

所谓的非特定性人类反应

just it is a significant scientific discussion 

只是一个重大的科学讨论

and probably but in any case

而且可能,但无论如何

and for example if we start discussing this issue 

例如,如果我们开始讨论这个问题

and we involved as many as possible scientists to help to develop this approach 

并且我们邀请了尽可能多的科学家来帮助开展这种方法

maybe in five   seven ten years we will be able to say 

也许在五,七,十年后,我们可以说

we’ve solved this problem and now biological weapons are absolutely useless

我们已经解决了这个问题,生物武器现在完全没有用

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原视频链接: https://youtube.be/uFsYOLRA3hY

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