https://gtv.org/video/id=61ee7f0a87664c47acd945ea

Tucker Carlson (Fox News host)
塔克·卡爾森 (福克斯新聞主持人)

So while the rest of us have been distracted by omicron
因此,當我們其他人被奧米克戎分心時

word that’s going to be the punchline of incredibly bitter jokes by the years from now
從現在開始的幾年裏,這個詞將成爲令人難以置信的苦澀笑話的妙語

omicron! as that has been taking up all of our disk space
奧米克戎! 因爲這佔用了我們所有的磁盤空間

the country has inexorably been moving closer to
這個國家已經不可避免地越來越接近

what could be an incredibly destructive war with Russia
與俄羅斯的一場極具破壞性的戰爭的可能

Our media is encouraging that war on MSNBC
我們的媒體在MSNBC正在鼓勵戰爭

The lunatics are demanding Joe Biden is doing more to defend the territorial integrity of Ukraine
瘋子要求喬·拜登在捍衛烏克蘭領土完整方面做得更多

Joe Scarborough (MSNBC Morning Joe host)
喬·斯卡伯勒(MSNBC Morning Joe 主持人)

We’ve got to be aggressive in our defense of our allies
我們必須積極地保衛我們的盟友

and Ukraine, despite what you hear from Putin propagandas
和烏克蘭,儘管這是你從普京的宣傳中聽到的

propagandists across the world and yes, even here in America
世界各地的宣傳員,是的,甚至在美國

despite what you hear, we have to defend our democratic allies
不管你聽到什麼,我們必須捍衛我們的民主盟友

And it’s time for the Biden White House to start speaking more clearly
是時候讓拜登白宮開始更清楚地說話了

and more aggressively and telling us
而且更積極地告訴我們

how they’re going to stop this invasion from happening
他們將如何阻止這種入侵的發生

Tucker Carlson
塔克·卡爾森

People that stupid should not have TV shows
愚蠢的人不應該有電視節目

and they certainly shouldn’t be weighing in on adult topics like war and peace
他們當然不應該在戰爭與和平等成年人的話題上發表意見

but they are. So you have to ask yourself, why is this happening?
但他們是, 所以你必須問自己,爲什麼會這樣?

Why the Russians so upset? Why are we moving towards some kind of conflict?
俄羅斯人爲什麼這麼生氣? 爲什麼我們要走向某種衝突?

There’s one reason, over a number of different administrations
有一個原因,在許多不同的政府

the United States government has pushed Ukraine to join NATO the North Atlantic Treaty Organization
美國政府推動烏克蘭加入北大西洋公約組織

Imagine if Mexico fell under the direct military control of China
想象一下,如果墨西哥落入中共國的直接軍事控制之下

We won’t see that as a threat, of course, there’d be no reason for that
我們不會將其視爲威脅,當然,沒有理由這樣做

Well, that’s how Russia views NATO control of Ukraine
好吧,這就是俄羅斯如何看待北約對烏克蘭的控制

and why wouldn’t they?
他們爲什麼不呢?

We don’t get anything out of pushing Ukraine into NATO
將烏克蘭推入北約對我們沒有任何好處

So why are we doing this?
那麼我們爲什麼要這樣做呢?

Clint Ehrlich is a Russia policy researcher
克林特·埃利希是俄羅斯政策研究員

He understands this issue quite well
他非常瞭解這個問題

And we’re happy to have him join us this evening
我們很高興他今晚加入我們

Clint, thanks so much for coming on
克林特,非常感謝你的到來

So is it too simplistic to say the core dispute here is over Ukraine joining NATO?
那麼說這裏的核心爭議是烏克蘭加入北約是否過於簡單化了?

Clint Ehrlich (Russia Policy Researcher)
克林特·埃利希(俄羅斯政策研究員)

I would say that that’s Russia’s perspective
我會說這是俄羅斯的觀點

But here we have people who are arguing that even if the Russians don’t invade Ukraine
但是在這裏我們有人在爭論即使俄羅斯人不入侵烏克蘭

that we need to invade and kick the Russians out of Crimea
我們也需要把俄羅斯人趕出克里米亞

That was an op ed from a senior Obama administration official this week
這是本週奧巴馬政府高級官員的一篇評論

And so I would say that it’s even simpler than that
所以我會說它比這更簡單

We’re dealing with our warmongers
我們正在與我們的戰爭販子打交道

unserious people whose policy prescriptions could have deadly serious consequences
不嚴肅的人的政策處方可能會產生致命的嚴重後果

Tucker Carlson
塔克·卡爾森

Well they’re deeply unserious people
雖然他們是非常不認真的人

They’re also people with a long and publicly available track record of failure of conflicts
他們也是長期公開的衝突失敗記錄的人

that have diminished the United States materially over the last 20 years
在過去的 20 年裏大大削弱了美國

so why did they get a say in this? They’re failures
那麼他們爲什麼在這方面有發言權呢? 他們是失敗者

Clint Ehrlich
克林特·埃利希

They like to portray themselves as cold warriors
他們喜歡把自己描繪成冷酷的戰士

but the architect of America strategy during the Cold War
但冷戰時期美國戰略的建築師

George Kennan warned that NATO expansion could lead us towards war with Russia
喬治·凱南警告說,北約擴張可能導致我們與俄羅斯開戰

and he’s been vindicated
他被證明是正確的

We’re now on the precipice of that kind of conflict
我們現在正處於這種衝突的邊緣

And so it’s a great question
所以這是一個很好的問題

Why is it that we should listen to these people?
爲什麼我們要聽這些人的?

Tucker Carlson
塔克·卡爾森

Well, I couldn’t agree more
好吧,我完全同意

I mean, if Max Buddhist is still making your foreign policy
我的意思是,如果最高領導人還在制定你的外交政策

it’s kind of your fault, I would say
這是你的錯,我會說

but and this is your question, is there something I’m missing?
但這是你的問題,我有什麼遺漏嗎?

Is there some compelling American interest that would be served by having Ukraine in NATO?
讓烏克蘭加入北約是否會帶來一些令人信服的美國利益?

Clint Ehrlich
克林特·埃利希

No, the deeper irony is
不,更具有諷刺意味的是

that NATO doesn’t even want Ukraine that it’s a corrupt country
北約甚至不要烏克蘭加入,它是一個腐敗的國家

It’s more of a liability than it would be a military asset
它更像是一種責任,而不是一種軍事資產

and the people who are pushing this simply argued that needs to happen
推動這個的人只是認爲需要發生

because Russia shouldn’t have a veto over who’s in NATO
因爲俄羅斯不應該對誰在北約擁有否決權

In other words, even when it’s in our mutual interest to not have a stake in NATO
換句話說,即使是在不與北約有利害關係的情況下,也符合我們的共同利益

we have to insist that there’ll be added just spite the Russians
我們必須堅持認爲會有更多的人加入,只是爲了報復俄羅斯人

Tucker Carlson
塔克·卡爾森

Look, I want to take people seriously all people
看,我想認真對待所有人

even people I disagree with maybe
即使是我不同意的人

especially people who disagree but it seems nuts
也許尤其是那些不同意但看起來很瘋狂的人

Is that your assessment?
這是你的評價嗎?

Clint Ehrlich
克林特·埃利希

Tucker, It’s not just nuts. It’s it’s dangerous
塔克,這不僅僅是瘋了,這很危險

I mean, we’re sleepwalking towards conflict with a country
我的意思是,我們正在夢遊走向與一個國家的衝突

that have more than 4000 nuclear weapons
它擁有4000多枚核武器

that the Russians are talking about potentially deploying Strategic Forces to Cuba
俄羅斯人正在談論可能向古巴部署戰略部隊

and Venezuela and a repeat of the Cuban Missile Crisis
和委內瑞拉以及古巴導彈危機的重演

and so it’s just shocking that people are not more upset about this
所以令人震驚的是人們並沒有對此感到更加不安

because the lives of Americans are being threatened over a situation where we have no vital strategic national interest
因爲在我們沒有重要的國家戰略利益的情況下,美國人的生命正受到威脅

Tucker Carlson
塔克·卡爾森

So since 1945
所以自1945年以來

we really only fought wars against poor disorganized third world countries
我們真的只與貧窮、無組織的第三世界國家作戰

North Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria
朝鮮、越南、伊拉克、阿富汗、敘利亞

Do you think that that’s convinced a lot of our policymakers
你是否認爲這讓我們的許多政策制定者相信

that it’s like, easy to fight worse?
就像是很容易與更糟的打仗?

Clint Ehrlich
克林特·埃利希

I think that it’s convinced them of that
我認爲這讓他們相信了這一點

And also we haven’t had war inside our country
而且我們國內還沒有發生過戰爭

the Russians have they understand the reality of war
俄羅斯人有過,他們瞭解戰爭的現實

and what it’s like to lose millions of people in a conflict
以及在衝突中失去數百萬人是什麼感覺

and somehow our policymakers
而且不知何故,我們的政策制定者

just imagine that war can never reach us
只是想象一下戰爭永遠無法傷害我們

And the reality is that you and I are in danger from this conflict, Tucker
現實是你和我在這場衝突中處於危險之中,塔克

the people that we love are in danger
我們所愛的人處於危險之中

And it’s just incredibly disturbing that this is happening
令人難以置信的是,這種情況正在發生

Tucker Carlson
塔克·卡爾森

It really is, Clint are like I really appreciate your perspective tonight and your clarity
真的是,克林特就像我真的很感謝你今晚的觀點和你的澄清

Thank you very much
非常感謝你

Clint Ehrlich
克林特·埃利希

Thank you, Tucker
謝謝你,塔克


Date:01/22/2022
原視頻標題: America is moving towards war with Russia, and the media is encouraging it.
美國正在走向與俄羅斯的戰爭,而媒體正在鼓勵它
原視頻日期:2022/01/19
原視頻鏈接: https://twitter.com/tuckercarlson/status/1483625516351565827?s=24
任務編號:KE363(3537)
視頻時間段 : 0:00-4:41
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